Tim Terrentine
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[00:00:00]
Dr. Nikki Harding: Hey, welcome to the We Not Me Inclusion In Action Podcast. I am very excited about our guest today. We have Tim Tarantine from the Translators Consulting Group. Tim is a good friend of mine and I have known Tim for, what, five years now? Has it been that long? I think we met at a conference in DC I think, I think it was a teacher [00:01:00] recruitment conference.
Maybe I. And one of the things that I think you and I have in common is that, , we can just skip small talk and we can go straight into the good stuff, which I is wonderful. So Tim, can you tell me a little bit. About your background? 'cause I know that you do, , a lot of work in really going deep in leadership and supporting executive leaders, but what got you to where you are now?
Who is Tim?
Tim: Nikki, thank you so much for having me, and it is a pleasure not only to be your friend, but to watching you and your work bloom, and all the innovations you're doing with teams and educators, and on behalf of students who are. Amazingly gifted and not always having all the access they need to the two. I mean, I just, I'm floored by your work and I honor you and what you're doing, first of all. Secondly, [00:02:00] you asked a question, we don't have time to answer, so I'll give it to you in the cliff notes. What drives me is this idea of somebodiness this. It always has. I'm an adoptee who was adopted as a very small child, and so I don't know a lot about automatic relationships. I know about community building.
. From people who don't have to, but choose to in community with you, who you know. And so that feeling that has really driven my life story across several industries 20 plus years now, of being in leadership roles. I took on my first real kind of executive role at 27 years old. I didn't know what in the world I was doing, those experiences brought me to a point where I started to really take a second guess at my life and my work.
And [00:03:00] I was working so hard for so many people, looked up and I was burnt out and near ineffective. I mean, I was, I was a shadow of the person I was born to be, and I was certainly a good executive. I was a, a good, driven leader to everybody else, but I would go home and fall asleep with my shoes on, exhausted.
Turn on the light, turn on the show. Serve as many people as you think you can, and then come home and be a zombie. I mean, it was really not where I wanted to be. And so I had plenty of warning signs and finally life sent me one I could not ignore, had to stop my entire life reset. Look again, . At what my purpose is my gosh, that same thing that has rescued me throughout my life. somebodiness, this is what I built a business around. How do you help people [00:04:00] create environments where everybody is somebodiness and we can get the unique genius out of each person, whether we're talking about school children or we're talking about a CFO. It's the same human problem. And so now I get to use 20 plus years of leading and experience doing everything from fundraising to community development, economic development, business. get to just help teams and leaders, and I get to create tools and practices for people to do somebodiness and this better. so. I'm thankful for all of it. That's how I got here. I'm Somebodiness this all the way.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Well, you have a gift for sure. Because I know when I first met you there was just something about you that definitely I. There just seems to be something about you that makes you feel special when you have a conversation with you. So you have [00:05:00] a, you have a gift of connection, Tim, so you, you're using your gift well to support people.
So your work centers on translating inclusion into action. That's what you talk about a lot. So our audience on this podcast is primarily school leaders and district leaders, and right now in school districts, they are navigating a lot of really complex, politicized environments. It can be pretty rough out there right now.
So how can that mindset. The mindset of translating inclusion into action, help them build trust and belonging on their campuses. Based on your experiences and your philosophy,
Tim: yeah. I think, first of all, I just want to acknowledge what you've said being very true that educators are under immense pressure, immense stretching budgets to [00:06:00] parents, to politics. At every turn, educators are under pressure. so how does somebodiness this apply? To people under pressure. I think the first thing is to encourage the educators that they are first to somebody. You know, educators are the original creative class. They've been turning nothing into something for. I mean, you go all the way back to the great philosophers. People would sit around the circle in on these stone tablets and they'd come in not knowing and leave more equipped from that time to this. They are the original creative class teachers, developers of people that you don't hear it much, but I want you to be reminded that you are That any and everybody who lives in the United States starts somewhere and [00:07:00] runs into a teacher. I don't care what your background is. And if you don't have access to education, you might run into a teacher who doesn't have a certificate, but you run into people who are teaching and so. That idea that every teacher brings a unique set of lived experiences, a unique set of passions, a familiar story that others can connect with. That's the first area of focus is that self-awareness and the reminder of who we are as educators. We are the most creative people on the earth, educators, in my opinion, of all the things they have to figure out how to do over and over again, and. Creative ways with all these different elements coming at 'em.
You can't tell me that we can't create a way to overcome this moment. You can't tell me that we don't have the creative and innovative ability to [00:08:00] solve this complex problem of resetting education in a way that makes us all proud of what we're trying to do. I've heard it. From teachers and principals and superintendents and assistant superintendents and lunch helpers and cafeteria workers. I, the, the people have the innovation. The question is, can we see each other as somebody and work together across systems, across teams, across school districts, across counties, across states, and actually make it easier for us to bring those innovations to bear. number one, I think the teachers are the creative class and they must be honored in that way and reminded of their power and how they are the ones who make a dollar out of 15 cents from the beginning of time. It's teachers, that's who they are. [00:09:00] Number two,
Dr. Nikki Harding: Mm-hmm.
Tim: to see each other as humans, that matter, like we matter even when we disagree. The very people who you think are stealing funding from you are human beings just like you, and somehow some way on their life journey, they ended up picking up information and practices and people who taught them to actually believe the opposite from you. But they are still a human with the same needs. And so we're gonna have to learn how to reach up and reach across in different ways with that idea. somebodiness this so we can solve the problem. 'cause it's going to take
Dr. Nikki Harding: Mm-hmm.
Tim: all kinds to unpack this one.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Mm-hmm.
Tim: that somebodiness, this is the core for strategy.
It's the core for bringing people together to solve problems and somebodiness, this is at the core of reinvigorating the heart. the educator reminding them of [00:10:00] who they are, the power they have, the examples they've already set of turning miracles around for people and helping them open up their thinking. I just think somebodiness, and this is at the center of all of it, if we let it be.
Dr. Nikki Harding: I love that. I love teachers. They all became teachers because they wanted to make a difference in, in the lives of others. And it's all about somebodinesss, , they wanted to help others. I. That, that was the root cause of their, their whole career choice. And somewhere along the lines,, other people have have forgotten that.
And that's how it got politicized
Tim: that when you're
Dr. Nikki Harding: I love,
Tim: You
Dr. Nikki Harding: yeah.
Tim: that when you're trying to
Dr. Nikki Harding: I,
Tim: like survival makes your ears close. You
Dr. Nikki Harding: Yeah.
Tim: there's some things you just can't hear when you're trying to protect yourself, and that's why I want educators to go on the offense, not the
Dr. Nikki Harding: Yeah.
Tim: the adversary, but on the offense of who you are, what you bring, and the difference we [00:11:00] already have made and can make.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Yeah. Remember who we are. Yeah. So you kind of touched on that with your, , with your answer, but one of the things that you talk about a lot is emphasizing the importance of revealing barriers before you can clear those pathways. So in the context of education systems, especially when we're talking about marginalized students what do you think are some of those common barriers that you've seen leaders miss or even misunderstand?
Tim: Yeah, I think, well, in some cases, well, I'll just speak to my experience. Poverty. Poverty. The poverty creates so many hard things because it's not just a condition of the pocket, it's a condition of the heart. a condition of the mind. It's this idea scarcity runs the world, that there's not enough and I am not enough. And [00:12:00] unfortunately over time what I've seen is that kids who are struggling, kids who are in need more need, quote unquote than others, we start to have more pity for them. There, there's a of the expectation because things are hard,
Dr. Nikki Harding: Mm-hmm.
Tim: unfortunately that kind of becomes soft bigotry. They, they call it the soft bigotry of low expectations, right? so we don't put,
Throw money at some of these students. We pay more per pupil. But we don't have more empowerment per pupil. We don't have more creativity per pupil. We don't have more
Dr. Nikki Harding: Mm-hmm.
Tim: per pupil. The families are not shifting, and I'm not saying this is all [00:13:00] on the school districts, this is not all on educators to deal with the layers of complexity of poverty. All I'm saying. Is that all of us come with our own bag, and as an educator, our job is to see the maximum potential for a student not look at their hardship and lower the bar because just 'cause the kid doesn't have financial resource doesn't mean they don't have the same somebodiness this kind of potential. To be impactful in the world as a student who comes from an upper middle class family, an upper class family, a wealthy family, these students, all were born with the same wiring, the same ability to maximize a gift. And it might show up in different scales in different ways, but I, the way we lower the [00:14:00] expectation. Kids are poor or because of an ability challenge or because of some other reason of difference. I think we gotta take another approach to that and really pour in more.
Dr. Nikki Harding: You know, it's really hard to approach your own bias and to admit that your bias, because, because you take pride in not being biased, right? So if you say, well, no, I'm not biased, I'm being helpful, and sometimes you can over help. That happens a lot with students who have disabilities. , You think I was just helping.
Rather than letting a student figure it out for themselves and sometimes figuring it out for themselves means letting them fail. That's dignity of risk. And that's hard for people to. Just take a step back and, uh, let people have those high expectations. I love that phrase that you used,
Tim: Soft
Of low expectations.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Soft bigotry of low expectations. [00:15:00] Yeah. I'm gonna use,
Tim: and it's
Dr. Nikki Harding: that's.
Tim: we, I mean like I know it comes from a place of care, but as adults, what we know is that struggle, tension, flux, generates growth at the most basic human level. It's the rain that makes the flower grow.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Mm-hmm.
Tim: and the heaviness of weight that grows muscle. And so to rob kids of all the weight bearing capacity and then send them out into a world that is heavy at a certain point, there's something really wrong with that. The world is hard. The world is tough and beautiful, and we only prepare them for the easy. And again, hey, I say this with no arrogance. I'm a father and I've really tried to make things better for my kids. [00:16:00] And I can see as I look back in areas where I overdid it, I took care of it. I didn't allow them to struggle. And as a system,
Dr. Nikki Harding: Yeah.
Tim: we know better. And so we've gotta equip ourselves differently so we can do better. 'cause these kids need. To know what it's like to reach for something, something they can attain and stretch and get. And if, if we think because they've got an ability that's different or because they come from a different background or come from a poor family or have generational challenges that somehow they don't still have the power. To make a difference, to be fullness and potential. I, we've gotta, we've gotta change that thinking.
Dr. Nikki Harding: You know, you mentioned systems in the real world, and what I think is interesting is that education seems to move so much slower than other areas. You know. [00:17:00] Corporations and other, even big corporations seem to be able to pivot a lot easier than education systems. There's a lot of things that have changed in the, in the education system, but there's also a lot of things that have not changed for generations within the education system.
But still there's a lot of things that have changed. You know what I mean? Like there's. Seems things that seem to change rapidly. And then there's also systemic things that stay the same that are not supportive and that are not helpful within education. So I like to ask people who have been in the corporate sector, what things have you observed from the corporate sector that you think would be interesting leadership lessons for.
K 12 people to to know or to hear.
Tim: a great question and I get asked a lot about the difference because I have been blessed to work across industries. I've been in education. I went to school to be a home [00:18:00] EC teacher, believe it or not. So I never thinking I'd be standing in businesses teaching, not in the home economics classroom, but I think one of the major differences between. Organizations that are funded by either taxes or grants versus organizations that are business organizations for profit organizations is that there's an urgency that's built in the business that you won't have a paycheck next year if something you are doing doesn't work and you know it you let it lie because your customers will stop buying it. If your customers stop buying it, there's no, no margin, no mission.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Mm-hmm.
Tim: think the way we fund and develop things in schools, there's not that urgency. If reading levels don't go up year to year, people still whole [00:19:00] work group still get a 3% raise. Nothing that, that there was no, there was no market challenge to were we doing a good job or not. And nothing changes about the urgency of our work. And so
Dr. Nikki Harding: Mm-hmm.
Tim: with is hoping people stay in a position where they care enough.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Mm-hmm.
Tim: one of the things that happens in business that I think could translate well is for leaders to figure out how to create the sense of urgency and not just a normal sense of urgency of We love all kids and all kids all the time and all. No, no, no, no, no. What is happening in this moment, quarter, this semester, this trimester? That is really important to us, and why should we care do try something different or to push ourselves further than the moment we're in. Right? And that [00:20:00] urgency is more natural because in some businesses, you only can have what you catch. And so every day there's brand new urgency, there's brand, a brand new.
Why a brand new incentive to approach what I do in a different and new way. And nobody really has to tell you that. You know it. There's the, the, boss don't have to call a meeting to say, Hey, y'all, we, the customers really have to like what we're doing. Well, you kind of know,
Dr. Nikki Harding: So I think I think what you're talking about also lends itself to the importance of inter-agency collaboration too, right? Because you know. Yeah, we need kids to read, but we also can't control everything that's happening. You know, if a kid doesn't have, , enough to eat at home, they're not gonna come to school ready to learn.
So [00:21:00] schools need to be able to talk to service providers that, , talk to the parents at home to make sure that there is enough to eat at home, and that the kids are going home to a clean and safe environment. We need to be able to have. This smooth transition of services for kids so that we are not having this soft bigotry of low expectations that kids have what they need, that they have all these basic needs met of a safe and healthy body so that they can have their academic needs met as well.
Because it is complex, these are. Children, not spreadsheets.
Tim: increasingly funding, partnerships, everything. And I've
Dr. Nikki Harding: Mm-hmm.
Tim: I've been involved in lots of public-private partnerships, and let me tell you, the difference between those who have impact and those who don't is the spirit of cooperation.[00:22:00]
Dr. Nikki Harding: Mm-hmm.
Tim: the school district open? For outside partners to work with you?
Or is there a leader in charge who needs to be in charge more than to be effective? Are there people playing defense or are we playing offense? Right. And the it, it's all about the spirit. How the leaders come to the table because funding is going away from some things. We are used to getting on repeat and we're gonna define new and different sources and so. I know it's scary 'cause it's scary for me as a business leader, but we've got to open ourselves up to trust others to journey with us, that's for food services, human resource, whatever we've gotta do partner so that we can still meet the mission. And I've seen it work both ways. I've seen it work where we got a spirit of cooperation.
People come together, they're op, they don't care who wins. They're just trying to make sure that the young people do that works. [00:23:00] And then I've
Dr. Nikki Harding: Yeah.
Tim: where there's no supports for kids, not because people don't want to, but because there's not room for partnership.
Dr. Nikki Harding: . So another thing that I wanted to make sure that we talk about is taboo topics. I love that you don't ever shy away from taboo topics, right? That's something that you jump right out there and you say on your core consulting areas is that you create a space for taboo and uncomfortable conversations.
And I love that you do that because that is where people can grow. So I think, I think that it's important that we talk about that more, and I think a lot of times we have , we're afraid to approach that because people don't want to start conflict. But I think we need to have more conversations about how healthy conflict leads to dialogue that can help your organization grow.
So how can school leaders. Invite those [00:24:00] dialogues without inflaming tensions knowing that we're already in a politicized environment. So how can, how can school leaders kind of balance inviting dialogue on some taboo topics and maintain student wellbeing and organizational growth?
That was a loaded question.
Tim: just gonna say, you sent me a grad school question right there. I'm gonna do my best with, think once again somebodiness, this is at the center. I. That if you're gonna talk about a taboo topic, something that is scary, something that triggers an area in my life where I'm either unsure, anxious, or I haven't had a good experience in the past, got to see the other person as a person like me. And so school leaders to go first. Yeah, because they know they've sat in uncomfortable conversations waiting for somebody else to be the brave one to break the ice. So the first thing you can do is see others as a person and [00:25:00] remember the real dynamics were in the room before you were the top leader. Just remember, human behavior go first. Be vulnerable first. We can validate people's pain in some ways just by starting with vulnerability. And a lot of times have tried these conversations, they've tried the topics and they didn't work, or they got their head bit off. So they, they're just really squeamish about trying again.
But again, my job is to create a space where everybody is somebody. So the topic's tough, but the people are more tough. And all we need is one person. To get us started. So that's the first thing leaders can do, is lead. Go first on these topics. Don't sit back and watch your team scream. Ask a question, put the topic in the center of the table, right? So that's one is go first. Number two [00:26:00] is get creative. Sometimes it's helpful about our problem in another industry. In another place with other people so that we take the personal stuff outta it. Sometimes there's a problem, and then we got conflict layered underneath it, and then somebody's got, you know, needs to leave underneath that.
There's all kinds of unspoken stuff that sits under taboo conversations, and so sometimes it's helpful for us to take a mental trip out of our conference room and imagine if we were consulting another group. Facing some similar challenges. And I have to tell you, I don't wanna give too big of a plug, but Nikki's got some great AI tools that can help teams think through creative ways approach things.
I mean, that's part of what artificial intelligence can help us do when we're stuck, is take our situation and put us in somdbody else's scenario. So if we're a school leadership team and we're dealing [00:27:00] with a, an interpersonal conflict and a strategy. Disagreement. Who else goes through those kinds of things? What other
Dr. Nikki Harding: Mm-hmm.
Tim: what happens if that happened in the grocery store and it was happening on our between two grocery store employees? What would we advise? Right? So it's like, see, see others as somebody and then see yourself in another space. So that you can trigger that diversity of thought, lower the drama. And then the third thing, prepare people for taboo. Stop bringing people into meetings and shocking them. Send a few questions, curious questions ahead of time. Well, so that the introverts in the room aren't going to be ice cubes when you get there. And the extroverts who actually have thought about what they're gonna say instead of just blurting out stuff that makes it worse. [00:28:00] I mean, these are just simple steps we can take ahead of time where practically leaders can change the condition. And here's the bonus one. What if your agenda was no longer bullet points, but questions? So let, we're
Dr. Nikki Harding: Oh, I love that.
Tim: Cut. Instead of saying, dealing with the 25 budget cuts, what resources will we need to meet Goal A, B, and C in 2025 , 26 year? What challenges might we have to overcome to do that? Now you send those questions as your agenda a week before the meeting versus the night before. Budget cuts 25. Now again, the
Ain't moved. The elephant is too fat to remove itself from the room is going to be there. The question is how do we walk up to it? And so those are just a few ways practically, and I'm hoping that these can help people [00:29:00] reset how we approach leading in these moments. Because if we set up the environment right, human beings know how to respond to human problems. The problem is we set people up to respond to 'em, like animals in the wild. No rules, no nothing, no setup, no prep, no explanation. Just put two Bram bulls in the room, throw in a bomb and see what happens. That's not helpful.
Dr. Nikki Harding: I love that it invites it invites shared ownership over all of the problems.
Tim: because
Dr. Nikki Harding: . Yeah. I. It also provides structure over that shared ownership. Which is wonderful. It's not saying as a lead, you know, you said lead with vulnerability, which sometimes is misunderstood as just saying, what do you want to do?
Which is way too open and vague. I like how it's structured vulnerability with this is the problem, [00:30:00] let's approach it as a team. So I, like that approach. So, you know, we talked about urgency within education and the importance of urgency. But you also talk about walking before running, and you have a walk towards inclusion approach that encourages organizations to move with intention.
And in education, urgency is constant. Sometimes in a different, in a different way. You know, we have, as a school principal, I was principal of an alternative school for, for a while. You never know what's coming through your door. How can leaders. Slowed down enough to actually sustain meaningful change.
Tim: That's a really
Dr. Nikki Harding: suggestions?
Tim: and a very hard practice. Good
Dr. Nikki Harding: Mm-hmm.
Tim: I think slowing down first of all, and requires and acknowledgement that the leader themselves, that I am important. [00:31:00] One of the challenges for people who are in caring and serving professions is you go into it 'cause you're passionate in a place that's deeper than your career. It's like soul business for serving people. so you'll just, you'll go to the ends of the earth to try to help. Other people to help that student, to help that family, to stay late, to go to that school carnival or to deal with whatever the thing is. And what happens over time to servers is they get burnt out because there's misalignment. And misalignment is all is about. Like think of a car. happens when you go too long, when the axle and the wheel are not in proper alignment? Well, what happens is you start to shake. Things start to break down. You start to get pulled into one side of the other, and that's in auto land. Well, the same things apply to humans.
We get [00:32:00] pulled to one opinion or the other, one tension or the other, like, I want to be opened or closed. because I'm tired of what's going on, I'm gonna close my classroom door. I'm not gonna deal with anybody else. I'm not gonna ask anybody for questions. This is my little fiefdom kingdom because I got pulled after a season of misalignment pretty soon you get just used to holding the steering wheel crooked. And
Dr. Nikki Harding: Mm-hmm.
Tim: I gotta get back to who I am. I gotta get
Dr. Nikki Harding: Mm-hmm.
Tim: relationship with myself, my relationship with others, and the alignment of my gift to my work, me, me, and we, and my gift in what I do. Those three elements of what have to be lined up, and for most educators, I would imagine, if they really stop to think for a moment, something's off a line with, in those three things.
Dr. Nikki Harding: One of the things that, [00:33:00] um, I often talk to leaders about, and it's so old school and not unique at all, but we quadrant sort, urgent versus important and uh right. It's not unique but it works. And a lot of times we start with everything is urgent and important, but it's really not. And then we talk about what are tasks versus what are ideas and what do we have to do and versus what can other people do.
And when we really get all of those things in alignment, leaders are able to take a breath. And, it's really a helpful exercise to start the year. And then we often have to do it again midyear, because things. Get misaligned just like they do with your car, or maybe just my car, but
Tim: And what happens is other people start sitting on our car, right? They
Dr. Nikki Harding: mm-hmm.
Tim: on the car, they start wanting to ride without paying for the [00:34:00] gas, and we just accept all this stuff. On our car that's already out of alignment. And so part of
Dr. Nikki Harding: Mm-hmm.
Tim: seeing that alignment in yourself, but making sure that what we are doing and what we're spending our time on is actually aligned with our purpose and our work.
And not something like shame or peer
Dr. Nikki Harding: Mm-hmm.
Tim: or fear. I gotta do all this
Dr. Nikki Harding: Mm-hmm.
Tim: thing is gonna happen at the end. Like it's really important that self-awareness and, and journaling and those kinds of things that coaches and therapists talk to us about. They not lying. It really does help for a moment and just let your brain slow down from all the to-dos to what you're becoming. Instead of what you're doing, what you're becoming, and that if we don't take space for that, in trouble. And I'm [00:35:00] telling these, I'm telling you this, not because I got it down, but because it's the very thing I continue to have to fight with. I mean, it is a real struggle do it well and do it consistently, but it's a necessary struggle.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Yeah, that's hard to do when you know you have a bunch of people who depend on you. When you have teachers who need your support and you have students who need your support that's really hard to take time for yourself as a leader. Lots of, lots of respect for the process behind that. Okay. So on your website you have a lot of, , things that you write about that challenge conventional narratives like in rethinking bias.
So if you were right now standing in front of a group of school leaders, what mindset shift would you most want to leave them with?
Tim: Wow. You mean about about bias or the whole thing? About bias?
Dr. Nikki Harding: About [00:36:00] bias? Yeah. What does it mean? What would be the challenge? Yeah.
Tim: a human condition, not a disease. We all have bias. We should have it. That's why there's 80 different ketchup on the shelf at the store. ain't because they made in different manufacturing or there's different tomatoes. It's because your grandmother used Hines. And so since your grandmama had Heinz and your daddy used Heinz, you are going to use Hines. And those people who use hunts are idiots right now. If you really, , if you looked on the back and you checked how food is manufactured, you'd quickly realize we don't need that many ketchups.
A lot of 'em are just the same, but it's about. What we have created as meaning and safe and reg and our choice, and we prefer things over others because of how we came up. That's bias. It's a human condition. Everybody's got it. The problem is when I'm [00:37:00] not aware of my biases, because the fight for bias is already fixed in our minds.
Like if the fight is fixed, 11 million to 40. My subconscious brain can pick up 11 million pieces of information in a second. My conscious brain only 40. Imagine all the messages you've picked up about different people over time. On tv, in music, in the store, on Twitter, on Facebook. The thing, the part of my brain that's on 24 7 365 is constantly picking up messages.
And let's be honest, we don't do different well, and when people are different, the messages are not very positive. So let's just be honest about that. Over time we pick up stuff 'cause the fight is fixed. So how, if it's a human condition prefer one thing over another because of what I've picked up over time, then, but.
[00:38:00] Than being a person of inclusion, a person who wants somebodiness in this, I just need to be aware that I like hunts more than I like Hines. And if a Hines person comes into my office and sits next to me, I just need to be aware that, and make sure that that decision about ketchup up ain't in the way of us working together. And so my being aware. My bias is part of what protects me and helps make me sort information, but it also plays a role in who gets seen, who gets recognized, who gets included, whose opinions are legit. It's, it doesn't make me bad. It makes me a human whose fight is fixed. And so if I wanna win a David and Goliath battle, my subconscious verse, my conscious, I simply have to be okay with admitting I have it, I. A human condition that is bias that helps me in some areas and it excludes and [00:39:00] hurts others and others. And if I'm a mindful of that and I don't play the blame game, I'm just a human and I want my bias to not be in the way for you. If I understand it as a human condition and I don't want bias to work against me, then I'm just going to move in a way that tries not to let it work against you. you are. And so I think that's the mindset is that it's a human condition and I've got it just like my preferences at the grocery store. And if I'm mindful of that and I don't let it get in the way of my decisions and my openness to others having an opportunity to thrive, then it's another human condition.
Like tennis elbow, we, we just have it we've lived it.
Dr. Nikki Harding: So everything you're saying aligns with the book I was reading yesterday, actually, , by Adam Grant. I'm sure you're familiar with. Yeah, I was reading, , think Again. And he was talking about how we're [00:40:00] emotionally attached to our ideas. , And I, I was just thinking about the, the double standard that we don't like being wrong, but being wrong is when we learn something, right?
When we realized we were wrong about something, that's when we realized that we learned something new. So I just thought that was. Interesting. That we don't, we don't celebrate being wrong enough. We celebrate being right. We celebrate validating our thoughts, and we celebrate validating our own feelings, right?
But we should celebrate learning something new. And I think that's kinda what you're talking about with rethinking bias, right?
Tim: I think on the other side of this we also do a, all of that is absolutely true. I think the scary part is we've also created a lot of language for how to celebrate other people being wrong. So it's not just, I'm right. [00:41:00] We now hear a lot more language about how all these other people are so wrong and we still are not
Dr. Nikki Harding: Mm-hmm.
Tim: Right. And
Dr. Nikki Harding: Yeah.
Tim: so we just gotta be careful, particularly in times like this where we feel like are scarce, we're losing money, there's different political beliefs around funding and all this kind of stuff. And if we're not careful, we will look up and become what we can't stand. If we,
Dr. Nikki Harding: Yeah, that's.
Tim: on somebodiness. This and the mission and working through the hard stuff in a way that's helpful. We're going to look up and caught up in a game of I know you are, but what am I? We'd be going rounds back and forth.
Dr. Nikki Harding: It's a dangerous game.
Tim: it play out all over the place, and I just, I hope it doesn't take over education.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Yeah. So last question. So education. It is a people business hands down. Uh, a lot of times more than 80%. That's a low [00:42:00] estimate of, , school systems. Budgets are salaries. That's. What, , and you know, we're teaching kids, paying staff to teach kids. It's, it's a human centered business. We know that leaders who are strong in emotional intelligence are the ones who are most likely to succeed and build strong systems.
, But you also have to understand. A lot of the other aspects of it too, so that's a lot. So what practices do you recommend for educational leaders who are trying to build systems of care to, to prevent burnout for themselves? I.
Tim: Yeah, I think it starts with hiring the right people and having the right systems internally. The people systems, right? That, that a lot of times these jobs feel impossible, not because of the problem, but because we're constantly struggling to make sure we have what we need to address it. The support, the time of leaders, the, we [00:43:00] sit in meetings for hours, but never get anything done.
I can't school, I've never seen people in meetings with their laptops out more than in education where there's a meeting going on, but everybody's working on something else. I. While the meeting's going on, like those are the small to, to engage, to make people feel like their time is precious, that there's space for them to do their professional work, they are spending their energy and their resources in a way that's helpful.
Like we just gotta make sure as leaders, we set the environment for success and that just because we've been doing it a certain way for so long. Doesn't mean we have to keep doing it that way. So like systems of support and just honoring leaders for their time, their energy, treating them like professionals, starting meetings on time, having an agenda prepared ahead of time. These, these are small things, but I'm just telling [00:44:00] you, they make a big difference in the team dynamic. They make a big difference in the
Dr. Nikki Harding: Thank you.
Tim: dynamic. So we gotta get those systems right. And then the other thing we gotta do is recognize culture. If we don't start celebrating people who get it right and stop spending so much time talking about all the grievances. Who, who are. Our examples of what we want it to be like. And again, I think when, when scarcity is there, budgets are being cut, people, we only celebrate survival related things, past looking things. And I'm saying who looks, who is doing like we wanna be? How do we recognize people differently and turn what we focus on?
Not that we don't have to deal with the problems, but if we can focus on what's going well and celebrate and recognize that in a consistent way, we might have a little [00:45:00] more fuel in the tank to address the hard stuff, but if all we do is
Dr. Nikki Harding: Right.
Tim: And dump more piles of impossible tasks on people's desks without changing a thing about how we approach our work. I just, it's gonna be hard to keep all of
those people motivated and fueled for the journey they, after trial, I.
Did I answer that
Dr. Nikki Harding: Tim.
Tim: feel like it, the spirit moved me at the end there. I just, I had to encourage people. I,
Dr. Nikki Harding: Well, I think you went back to how you answered the, the first question, though. Teachers, we need to go back to who, who, why we started an education to begin with, because we wanna make a difference in the lives of children.
Tim: I would say
Now, do a meeting, edit. It's the summertime. Now, I don't know when the podcast
Dr. Nikki Harding: mm-hmm.
Tim: but wherever you hear this, take your most draining regular meeting. The meeting that happens the most regular, where [00:46:00] you don't know what happened in the last three meetings. 'cause you've been doing other work in it.
It drains your soul. I challenge everybody who's listening, identify that meeting and take one small, courageous step to see if you can make it more effective. Where we can honor people's time. And in that boring meeting, maybe you can flip that into a meeting where we're actually getting more solutions. Maybe it's a place we can do more recognition. Maybe it's an encouragement moment. Just take the challenge one meeting, one small act to take it from this sucks to this helps. See if we can pull it off.
Dr. Nikki Harding: I love it. Baby steps one thing at a time.
Tim: Small is all.
Dr. Nikki Harding: I love it. Thank you, Tim. Every conversation with you, I learn something. I really appreciate your time. Where can people get ahold of you?
Tim: you for asking, translators cg.com. cg.com. [00:47:00] and there you can find resources about what we do, or can search me on YouTube or Translators Consulting Group on YouTube and you can find videos and video blogs and stories of people we're trying to journey with.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Tim is absolutely amazing and I would highly recommend, um. Following him on all of his channels because I learned something with every video that I watch. So,
Tim: too. Connect on LinkedIn. I like to stay in touch.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Thank you very much.
