Room recording - May 23, 2025
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Dr. Nikki Harding: [00:00:00] Hey, welcome to another episode of the We Not Me Inclusion in Action Podcast. I am Nikki Harding and I am here today with Lisa Perry, who is a principal in South Dakota. And Lisa has an incredibly inspiring story. Super excited to have her on here and, and tell her story and a little bit more about what led her here. So Lisa is principal of, pre-K 12 building. So Lisa, could you tell us a little bit more about what you do and I'll let you tell your story rather than me tell it
Lisa Parry: Thank you, Nikki. It's, it's nice to be here. Yeah. I'm a pre-K 12 principal, principal in a rural South Dakota school, and I also teach AP language and composition to seniors, and I'll kind of even touch on that a little bit as we get into inclusion and, and strategies. I work a lot for the Department of Education in creating content for and facilitating teacher and principal mentorship.
And love all things education. Love to speak, love to create content. Came to [00:01:00] this in a weird way and I I like to tell people this and they're always surprised. I was raised in nursing homes and I watched my dad take care of very, very vulnerable people, you know, our grandparents, and I didn't know it then, but I was.
Kind of learning at the knee of someone who was teaching me how to be an educator because we deal with very, very vulnerable people, people's children, and you know, anybody who thought this wasn't gonna be personal, anybody who says, oh, it feels so personal. Well because it is. And if you didn't think it was gonna be then you didn't really think it through.
So I'm happy to be here today to talk with you about inclusion and its importance.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Yeah. Yeah. We have people's babies that we're in, in charge
Lisa Parry: Absolutely.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Absolutely. so what this podcast is all about is shifting from thinking about individual action to collective action. So as a principal and speaker, how do you, how do you define true inclusion in schools? Beyond just thinking about policies and programs.
Lisa Parry: Well, I, as a [00:02:00] writing teacher and a elt, ELA teacher for 30 years, I traffic in stories. And I think that that is probably the first layer of what inclusion looks like. It's, it's knowing individuals and not looking at groups, whether it's a, you know, a primary group or a subgroup. It's about understanding that, first of all, each group has a story, and then within that group, the subgroups have stories.
And within those subgroups, every individual has a story. And anybody who tries to approach school leadership. With a, you know, through this broad lens or from an aerial view, misses, you know, all the beauty of what you see on the ground or all of the challenges that you're gonna see from the ground that not are going to, that aren't gonna be apparent from afar.
And so it starts with stories, I think, and knowing where people are, what they've experienced, what they want, what they believe they can have for themselves, what they think they deserve. And then I also think it's about strengths. When I, when I speak to [00:03:00] administrators. I really admonished them to capitalize on their staff's strengths instead of trying to, you know, mitigate all of the weaknesses.
When, when you talk to people about what they're good at. And you encourage more of that. It's interesting because some of the, the relative weaknesses or challenges they have kind of start to fade away when they double down on what they're good at. And I think that's very important for students and for teachers.
Here's where I shine, here's where I excel. I might never be good at that. So quit bringing it up. And this is born of my own frustration. I don't like data. I don't know how to make sense of it. I'm an English teacher and so if I had to be great at data to lead my school. I, I wouldn't be here. What they recognize is I'm good with the people.
I do, the people work, and somebody else helps me with the paperwork. I don't wanna be just scolded all the time for, for my, you know, ineptness, ineptness with data. I wanna be celebrated for the personal strengths that I have, [00:04:00] and that's really, really important when you're talking about inclusion.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Yeah, when you talk about collaborative teams as well it's funny you mentioned data. That's one of my favorite things
Lisa Parry: Oh my. Well, that's what makes the world go round, right? We're all different.
Dr. Nikki Harding: So I know that you have spoken on really big stages like TEDx stages. So what is one misconception about inclusion that you have to unteach audiences or that is your goal to unteach audiences?
Lisa Parry: I think anytime you're talking about inclusion, you know, bringing everyone in, giving everyone a seat at the table, there has to be a shift, a word shift. Again, here's the ELAN. Yeah, ELA nerd in me. It, it's not about them or what they do, or they need, it's, it's a we and it's an us. I think inclusive pronouns are so important.
They're important in daily conversations. They're important in our writing. We need inclusive pronouns. And so when we're talking about inclusion, it isn't [00:05:00] about someone else. It's about the whole, it's about Arlington School or South Dakota schools and everybody who participates in that environment. And so I think.
Working on that mindset shift from exclusive pronouns to inclusive pronouns is really important, and I think that that's one way people can start to train their brain to think differently. Because when we communicate differently, you know, as teachers I learn everything I teach and I, I learn it. I mean, I know Macbeth now by the back, but like the back of my hand, which is not necessarily a good thing, but I've taught it so many times.
When you think about something a lot, when you say something, a lot, when you write something a lot, you start to absorb it. And so if people can even start with that small change of inclusive language. I think that that can make a, a big difference. And even if you are not quite there yet, if you're using us and we, the people who you're communicating with will perceive that you're there.
And that's, that's even [00:06:00] maybe more important than the reality. 'cause I might still be working on it, but if you think that that's my thinking, you're gonna trust me, you're gonna believe in me, you're gonna be loyal to me, you're gonna have a good experience with me.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Yeah. So when I talk to people about what I do and when I tell them that really I'm focusing on teacher retention and school culture and the name of my business is the Inclusive Leadership Lab. They're often confused, especially if they know my history and know that my background is in special education. And a lot of people think when we talk about inclusion, we're, we're really focusing on special education, but that's not necessarily true, and I feel like you really understand that. So how, when you talk about that, how do you expand the definition of inclusion to include culture, language, neurodiversity, and even staff collaboration?
How do you help people understand that?
Lisa Parry: Well, you know, for every person in this world, there's a way of experiencing life. I, I don't know what the world's population is at this point in time, [00:07:00] but for each one of us, there's a way of experiencing things. And so I. I think inclusion in some ways is, you know, we have defined it incorrectly. Like you said, our default is kids with special needs kids on IEPs.
And it isn't that like everybody, everybody is unique, everyone is different. I've, I've taught in a school where I've been to English department, like all my life I was the English department. I was the only one. I was a unique. And so to have me included was important because I didn't have a team. And the team, well, I did have a team.
The team was the team, right? And, and so we can't, we often expect ourselves out of others. We think everybody's gonna think like we think, talk like we talk, do like we do. And that is not the truth. And so when you really grasp and, and you know. Understand and accept, that's the word I'm looking for, [00:08:00] that no one else thinks, acts does, communicates like you do and you wanna be included, then that means that there has to be room for everyone else.
And it's not about ELs and it's not about neurodivergent and it's not about a DHD and it's not, it's about everyone is unique. And if schools aren't celebrating that, then we're really in trouble. Right? Because kids need, and, and staff members need, they stay if they believe that they're important and to the conversation.
And so I guess, I guess what I would say to everybody is inclusion is inclusion is one person talking to another person, another person that Inc. That. That is inclusion at, you know, at its base level. You and I talking because you and I are not the same. You just said it. You love data. I can't stand it.
You're sped. Sped scares me. You and I are not the same, but you're including me in your podcast and I'm including you in my day. And we're not the [00:09:00] same. And yet we're finding value in each other's experiences and perspectives. And that can happen all over my building from a preschooler to a senior, from a veteran teacher to a new teacher.
Every one of them needs to feel included, and every one of them has some things that are valuable and they have some things that are actually maybe quite treacherous to the process. It doesn't matter. We're, we're all there together, so we better figure it out.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Sometimes sometimes accepting that can be really hard for
Lisa Parry: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Nikki Harding: And transitioning from being a teacher to an administrator can be challenging. And know that when I transitioned from a teacher to an administrator there was more pushback from staff than I anticipated. And I know now that that resistance is pretty inevitable. How, how did you manage some of that resistance and some of that pushback from some of the things that maybe you just talked about that seem natural to you that you didn't expect from people?
Lisa Parry: I think the first thing you've gotta point out to people is they're already doing it [00:10:00] and
Dr. Nikki Harding: Yeah.
Lisa Parry: they're doing it for students or peers who, and they don't even realize it because these people are more like them. I. Than maybe some of the students who present, you know, real unique challenges. And so you are already accommodating and differentiating, and you're already meeting people where they are.
And so it isn't a new thing. It's just, it's, it's, you maybe have to take one additional step or you maybe have to open one more door in your mind to see that this person doesn't really need an overhaul of the experience they're having with you. But they too could use a little bit of a tweak to the system and you know, it's very human to be attracted to people who are like us.
To be attracted to people who think like us, who enjoy the same things. We, we enjoy to not like the reject, the same things we reject. And so we're doing that for people all the time without knowing it. We're accommodating similar people all the time
Dr. Nikki Harding: [00:11:00] Mm-hmm.
Lisa Parry: and for, for whatever reason, we've been conditioned to think that it's such a big ask, you know, to to step outside a little bit to somebody who's quite different from us.
And to meet their needs. And so first thing is you're doing it. Now, you just need to expand the circle. You just need to put more chairs at the table because you've already got 10 chairs there. Now it's time for five more. And the other thing is, and this comes from James clear's atomic habits, which everybody should read 10 times or at least read the cliff notes online.
You can find them. You have to ask people to engage in small changes. You have to ask them to do a choice board. Once a unit, you have to ask 'em to let kids, you know, decide how they're going to demonstrate mastery. You know, at, at least blank. A blank. You can't say to people, alright, for all 25 kids in your class, each of them has to have an individualized rubric.
And because the, here's the sad truth. The system, the system is the problem. It's not teachers. We work in a system that makes [00:12:00] it unrealistic. That we're gonna meet every kid's individual needs in our classrooms of 25 or 30 kids. And I don't know many teachers who don't wanna meet every kid's needs. I just know teachers who are unsure how to get that done.
And so we have to ask realistic, small changes on their part and not get into the idea that it has to be this revolution in their classroom. 'cause everybody just box at that.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Yeah, we really have to reiterate that we're all in this together and that it's always a team
Lisa Parry: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Yeah. Yeah. I just recorded another episode with somebody else that we have to keep saying that all students are gen ed students first. And all teachers are teachers first.
Lisa Parry: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I don't know, I don't know where, along the way we got so off that path. I, you know, and I feel like actually, you know, there is more inclusion than there was when I [00:13:00] started in 1994.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Mm-hmm.
Lisa Parry: are more inclusive. Students are more students with challenges, are more involved in terms of talking about special education, but there's still that, there's still that us, them feeling that goes on.
And you know, and some of the best teachers are teachers who have children, their own children who've had their own struggles. Because nothing, you know, nothing makes you better at something than empathy in the situation. And I think sometimes one of the, one of the biggest Achilles seals I have is I always like school.
And school was easy for me and I enjoyed it and I wanted to be there. And so I come to as an educator and I like it and I wanna be there. And I, that can be a disconnect then between me and kids who don't have a similar, similar experience or parents who hated school. Don't wanna come to open house, don't wanna come to conferences.
And what do we do? We, we decide that it's because they're not invested. We decide it's because they don't care. No, they got their butt kicked every day. [00:14:00] 176 days a year for 13 years. They're not interested. They don't wanna talk to the principal. They don't wanna talk to the English teacher because tho that it can be triggering actually.
But we come to these conclusions like they're not in it with us. No. They're scarred by it.
Dr. Nikki Harding: They had bad experiences
Lisa Parry: experiences. Yep,
Dr. Nikki Harding: they're afraid the same cycle is gonna be repeated with their
Lisa Parry: absolutely.
Dr. Nikki Harding: of their kid.
Lisa Parry: And they're either gonna come in hot or they're not gonna come in at all. And, and we have to understand and see that anger as hurt and we have to see the avoidance as hurt.
And I guess that's the conclusion I draw until, until I'm proven wrong, until that parent proves that, no, I'd be fine here. I just don't wanna be. You know, and that is the case for some people, but my default is always you can't, and there's something around that and I need to be curious about what that is.
Dr. Nikki Harding: I think that's the least dangerous assumption.
Lisa Parry: Absolutely. It's the one I would want someone to [00:15:00] make of me.
Dr. Nikki Harding: absolutely.
Lisa Parry: There must be something there. There's a barrier and I can't see it, but I gotta see it and then I can help remove it.
Dr. Nikki Harding: So how do you lead your staff in in accepting that with you?
Lisa Parry: Well, because I actually get a lot of the heat, you know, a lot of people want, don't wanna have the conversation with the teacher. They wanna come right to me. And I think that that's happening more and more than it ever has. And I, you know, I have people come in and they're upset about what was done or not done.
You know, what happened to the playground? What happened to the classroom in my. As I sit there and listen to people or read the email, I'm thinking like a detective. I'm not thinking like a victim, I'm thinking like a detective. I want to know what's going on. I wanna gather as much information as I can so that I can respond to this appropriately.
Because, you know, responding to fear, someone's fear with anger is not gonna do anything to make them feel safe. It's only gonna drive 'em further [00:16:00] away. So I'm always starting with what are you afraid of? And then how? How can I. How can I calm that for you? How can I reassure you? And so often when teachers ask me about, well, what happened when you met with, or What happened when you called?
And I, and I'll say that, I'll say, well, you know, I, I suspected this. And so as an admin, you have to do what you want others to do. You have to model that. If I sit in a room with a teacher and parents and myself, I'm not getting defensive. I'm not getting angry. I'm asking questions. And teachers see that.
They watch it. They don't just hear me talk about it, but they see it in action. And I really think curiosity. You wanna hear somebody's story, you know, back to stories. I wanna hear somebody's story before I make a judgment of what, what I'm gonna do, what I'm gonna say.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Yeah, I think you're right. Anger is usually fear in disguise.
Lisa Parry: You know what? And I love this and I don't know where I got it, but like if somebody comes to you and [00:17:00] they're at a 10. Over an issue that's like a one or a two.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Mm-hmm.
Lisa Parry: the issue, it's something else. You know, if it's a tardy and they're just blowing, it's not the tardy. So what is it? What is it? Because nobody gets that upset.
Over, you know, one little infraction that gets you one little demerit or whatever it is. And so that's always my, you know, my question and my thought to myself, what is really going on here? And I really like that. I, I really am interested in the, you know, the mystery of what's behind it. And I, I like thinking about that and trying to come to conclusions and then acting appropriately.
Dr. Nikki Harding: So do you remember a turning point in your career where you learned that? Because. I think as you're talking, I remember. You know, I used to be a little bit teaching special education. You know, we have kids who are, are often, you know, emotionally dysregulated and that can be a really high stress environment.
So I used to [00:18:00] feel a lot of stress and then I learned that it's not about me. It's about teaching them you know, behaviors, a skill. Emotional regulation is a skill just like math and reading is a skill. And as soon as I learned that my life got easier and my life got more less stressful, right.
I'm just. I'm just teaching them a skill. It's fine.
Lisa Parry: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Nikki Harding: and that was that was a complete shift for me. So I don't, was there a, do you remember like a turning point in your career where you made that shift?
Lisa Parry: I remember when I was early in the principalship and I'm a high school teacher and I had a young, a young student in my, in my office through a snowball. I don't remember what I.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Mm-hmm.
Lisa Parry: I brought the high school teacher in and probably even brought a little bit of myself as a parent because now I don't know if this comes through, but I'm pretty emotional.
I'm pretty, I have a lot of volume. I'm, you know, I'm animated, so I've got this little person in my office and I am, this is again, early. [00:19:00] I haven't really shifted yet to being an elementary person. And I am just intense. And I can see on this kid's face like, like this fear. And what I thought about was. And I'm a, I'm a dog mom.
I have two labs. How you sometimes see a person with a dog and, and the, you go to pet the dog and the dog does this, and you know that that's a sign that something bad is happening. And I remember looking at this kid, and again, if it's a one, you know, and the 10 is a reaction and thinking, this kid is really, really scared of me right now.
So one of two things is at play. Either this child never gets in trouble at home. No one ever raises a voice, which is unlikely. Or this child gets in in trouble. That kind of exceeds what I would think would be, you know, necessary or you know, appropriate in this situation. And just looking at this little face, I thought to myself, that was the moment where I knew I had to get curious.
Like, [00:20:00] because instantly I had this question, okay, why this reaction? And so talking more, talking more, talking more. Unfortunately it was that little things escalated very quickly and very severely in this, in this person's house. And so me coming in with any level of anger or intensity, just there was fear.
And since then I've wanted to know why people do what they do now. He shouldn't have thrown the snowball, I mean, right? I mean that, but. But to be so fearful that something terrible is gonna happen to you because you made a ridiculous choice and you're five or six years old. That was just way too extreme.
And I think about that face. I really do. I think about that face and what that person was experiencing and and notice I said person, you know, 'cause I think a lot of times people discount 5, 6, 7 year olds, you know, kids, students, children. No, this is a person. Sitting with me and this person was [00:21:00] unduly terrified
Dr. Nikki Harding: Mm-hmm.
Lisa Parry: I needed to find out why.
And that was, that was really the shift, especially as a principal. It's, for me, it was easier when I was a teacher. 'cause I was with kids 50 minutes a day, 170 sixth days a year. And I taught ninth, 10th, 11th, and 12th grade English. So by the time they're juniors and seniors, I've already had 'em for two years and we know each other.
So if I get mad, they're good. They get mad and good, we know each other. But when you're a principal. And you kind of have this revolving door of people coming in. You don't know the person. You know the person. I know everyone's name, but I don't know
Dr. Nikki Harding: Right.
Lisa Parry: kid. And it's important to get to know them.
It's important to know the story. I.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. I remember sitting with kids who were completely dysregulated, throwing fits and thinking. Finally, you know, at first, you know, when you, when you're a young teacher and you're just learning things, thinking what is going on? What happened? You know, because like you, school was easy for
Lisa Parry: Yep.
Dr. Nikki Harding: I
Lisa Parry: it?
Dr. Nikki Harding: going to school. [00:22:00] Yes. When none of this made sense. Why, you know, this was such a trigger. But then, you know, you learn about trauma, you learn not everybody. Grew up like I did, this was a completely different environment for
Lisa Parry: Right,
Dr. Nikki Harding: would you learn compassion and you learn to put yourself in somebody else's shoes and you learn.
I'm the one with the fully developed prefrontal cortex. I'm the adult here. I'm just gonna sit here with you and wait you out. And then we'll talk about how. We could have handled that situation better. And I'll just sit here under the table while you figure out how to get control of your emotions.
Lisa Parry: I was actually,
Dr. Nikki Harding: make that shift.
Lisa Parry: I was sitting, or I was zooming yesterday with a former FBI, negotiator and she and I were just sharing that in our worlds, which are very different obviously, but but somewhat the same. You know, you, you, you are presented a person who's made a poor choice and there is gonna be a consequence on the other end of that, right?
Because sometimes policy, policy is [00:23:00] policy. So if you make X mistake, Y happens. And she and I though were talking about the importance of the in-between. That this person is. Is treated humanely and this person is respected and this person is you know, heard. And it doesn't necessarily change the outcome because sometimes the outcome has to be the outcome, whether it's, you know, a Saturday school in my, in my world or an in-school suspension, outta school suspension expulsion.
And I may or may not agree with that, but it doesn't matter sometimes. The end is just the end. And same for her. Sometimes an arrest led to an incarceration and there was nothing she could do about that no matter how she felt about this person involved. But what she could control and what I could control is the middle.
Once I have you, until once you leave me for whatever's next I can. I can treat you like a person. I can talk to you like a person. [00:24:00] I can listen to you. You can feel valued. And there's gonna be a consequence that you're probably not gonna enjoy.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Yep. Well, I think that's part of the teaching process, right? I, I was also in a principal of an alternative school for a while
Lisa Parry: Hmm.
Dr. Nikki Harding: and you know you never know what you're gonna expect when you go to work as principal of an alternative school. And I remember we're completely stray from the script here. But I think this is good conversation. So had a kid that would destroy. Destroy our property. And when I came into the position, that was something that was often allowed because this particular alternative school was only for students who had disabilities. And so the mindset of the previous administrator was that the IEP allowed that, and my mindset was, no,
Lisa Parry: Right.
Dr. Nikki Harding: not acceptable because these.
Children are high school students and they're nearing adult life, and they need [00:25:00] to understand that they cannot go into the workplace and punch holes in the walls like. They will get fired and arrested, like, this is so inappropriate. So we need to have explicit teaching of what is and is not acceptable.
And real quickly they understood what it was. We did social stories, we did pre-teaching, all, all those things. There were some really hard days, but and there was law enforcement that was involved. We had a really good relationship with the local law enforcement. And there was one day that I did have to call law enforcement in, and the student was arrested and he came back the next day and he wrote me a note that said I am I'm sorry I called you a bitch. And I, that meant a lot to
Because he showed remorse, first of all. And it was remorse after. Law enforcement was called, like he understood there was a price to pay for the actual, this was somebody [00:26:00] who hadn't experienced consequences for a long time in his life. And it was a life skill.
Yes, he had a disability that involved emotional regulation, but also understood this is what real life is and I have to take ownership
Lisa Parry: Absolutely.
Dr. Nikki Harding: What's going on in my life. So I thought that was a real, a really powerful moment
Lisa Parry: I think it's important to, to understand when you know, being lenient is helpful and when being punitive is helpful because
There are times for both, there's times for leniency and that's the best thing for the kid in that moment, but there are times when. Students do have to be held accountable for exactly the reason you just said you're not doing them a favor, and it might feel like it in the moment.
There are other ways though, to get one self calm, you know, rather than punching holes or throwing textbooks around. There's other ways and, and if [00:27:00] you don't, yeah, if you don't push back against that, then you don't offer an alternative, right? Because that's fine. So you don't need something different to do, but as soon as you push back against it and you teach replacement behaviors, that's helpful.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
If you could give every school leader a piece of advice what would that be?
Lisa Parry: You know, you have to solicit. Yeah, the input, the thoughts, the opinions, the, the complaints, the praise. You have to solicit that from everyone in, in, in your community. And, and by community, I mean school community, and then the community at large. In order to include everyone. And again, because you can't expect yourself out of others, you, you may not even fathom that this might be something that.
A person or a subgroup or a group wants or doesn't want, you don't even fathom it. It doesn't even occur to you unless you ask. And so, you know, I think this is especially important in you [00:28:00] know, team building or re rewards or motivation for teachers. You know, what do they want? Like, you know, I see on TikTok all the time, you know, all these, all these attempts by administrators to, you know, show their teachers.
They appreciate 'em. So they bring, they make it Orange Day and they bring in Fanta and Cheetos, and, and that's all great if that's what they want. But I often wonder, did anyone have a conversation with anybody because. I think the currency in my school would be different. I think there's things they'd rather have than Cheetos and Fanta.
No hate to people who do that. Maybe that's exactly what your staff wants, but I think we so often decide what to do and we think it's such a good idea, but we don't test it anywhere.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Eight.
Lisa Parry: We, and, and people are too polite to say no thank you. We'd rather have, you know, X, Y, or Z. And so. I, I think it's important as a leader to avoid, you know, the one-offs and the [00:29:00] little trivial things that you do.
And you have to show up every day as someone who cares about each individual and who does their best to protect that environment so that individual can do his or her best and enjoy to the extent possible, his or her experience. And that's a lot harder than bringing in Cheetos. It, you know, I'd love to bring in Cheetos, but, but I, I, I think that what people want is just a daily, they want daily reassurance and daily proof that you're there for them.
That even if you don't see things the way they see them, you're gonna listen to that. You're really gonna take that into consideration. And you may or may not act on that, depending on, you know, the circumstances. But, everybody needs to ask what people want. You know, like Christmas lists. I have three adult children, but when it came to buying things for Christmas, you asked them what they wanted.
Or even if you didn't ask 'em, they told you, right? There was a 17 page list of what they wanted. But you know, my son who loved a football and a [00:30:00] basketball, I didn't get him. GI gel figurines. He that's a present. I could have wrapped that up just as well. But he wasn't into action figures or, or GI Joe, any of that stuff.
Spider-Man, Batman. He wasn't into any of it. He, he was into sports. So what if I'm wrapping up Batman and Spider-Man and I'm feeling great about it? And he might be, he might be polite enough to go. Thanks.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Yeah.
Lisa Parry: But.
Dr. Nikki Harding: That's making about you, not about
Lisa Parry: Exactly. Exactly. So that's probably my biggest piece of advice is yeah, make it about them, find out what they want, and then do it if you can.
Dr. Nikki Harding: yeah, yeah. So how can listeners connect with you or learn from you after this episode?
Lisa Parry: You can find me on LinkedIn. I'm there P-A-R-R-Y, and I've got a website, principal perry.com. And you, that's linked to my LinkedIn and so you can learn a lot about me in both of those places. And my TEDx talk is, is linked to my, to my website. So if you go to LinkedIn, you get to my website, you get to my website, you get to my [00:31:00] TEDx and I talk about enjoying the uptime.
I don't live for the weekends and I don't live for summer. I know better than to waste five days a week. Wishing I was doing something else or somewhere else. At the point I get to that I need to go away because life's too short. And I talk in my TEDx about my mom having her, her career was taken from her when she was diagnosed with cancer.
It was taken, she did not give it up. And in fact, she would've worked until the day she died if she could have. And so when I'm kind of having a pity party and I'm sulking, I remind myself that I get to work. She did not get to work.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Mm-hmm.
Lisa Parry: to work, I don't have to work. I get to work. And I think that that's an important mindset too.
So you can learn more about that in the TEDx.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Yeah, so I, I actually watched your TEDx talk and my dad passed away six years ago next week. And he passed away a year after he retired. And I thought after that, why wait until you [00:32:00] retire to travel and to
Lisa Parry: Right,
Dr. Nikki Harding: life and to
Lisa Parry: right,
Dr. Nikki Harding: choices in your
Lisa Parry: right.
Dr. Nikki Harding: that that make you happy. And yeah.
So I made a lot of life
Lisa Parry: Yeah.
Dr. Nikki Harding: dad
Lisa Parry: Yeah. Yeah, it's true. And I, and I guess I've always been somebody who tries to find good or make good out of terrible things, and it's, it's terrible when you lose a parent. It is. You, you're always too young to lose your parents. I, and, and so she's gone and I can't do anything about that, but I, to bring her back, I mean, but I can live differently and I can not, you know, for my own children, like for the.
All my years of work, like I just, I made work everything. And now I've got three kids who I'm trying to get them to unlearn that because I don't want them to spend as many years in that as I did. You know? And that's the other thing too, when it comes to just helping people is just telling them to go home.
Tell your teachers to go home. Stop going, Hey, look at you. Stay until eight o'clock again tonight. [00:33:00] I like it. Like, quit it. Quit it. These are people and, and if you're still doing that, you've done it for too long and you need to stop it because there's more to it. And you can ask Nikki and and, and me because we've lost parents and we know there's more to it than the nine to five.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Yep. Absolutely. Alright, well thank
Lisa Parry: Absolutely.
Dr. Nikki Harding: really appreciate your time and we should absolutely stay connected.
Lisa Parry: Yes. Absolutely. I really enjoyed it. Thanks so much for the platform.
Dr. Nikki Harding: Thank you.
